Comments for Coming Out Strong http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog brought to you by kaleidoscope - a program of BMC Wed, 10 Mar 2010 09:24:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 Comment on Pink Menno campaign by maggie http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2009/03/03/pink-menno-campaign/#comment-149 maggie Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:19:33 +0000 http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2009/03/03/pink-menno-campaign/#comment-149 Luke, I looked at this website the other day, and teared up as I looked at everyone I knew (and those I don't know) who have joined! Luke, I looked at this website the other day, and teared up as I looked at everyone I knew (and those I don’t know) who have joined!

]]> Comment on We have what they need by tmrussell1 http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2008/01/22/we-have-what-they-need/#comment-132 tmrussell1 Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:57:55 +0000 http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2008/01/22/we-have-what-they-need/#comment-132 This is an interesting set of ideas. Thank you for raising this discussion. I think that you are absolutely right to say that the church, especially in the West, has been afflicted with a very destructive understanding of sexuality. As if it is really a dirty and sinful thing that we would escape if we could, but the world needs new babies and we all have "urges", so we control it as much as possible and then dont talk about it. I think this can be traced back to the influence of gnostic heretics on early Christianity and the notion that the physical world and human bodies are morally impure, and the goal of faith is to be liberated from the physical. Take for example Augustine's writings on original sin. Since he determined that it is passed biologically from father to child, he proposed, sex is th mechanism by which moral corruption is perpetuated in the world. He went so far as to posit that Jesus never touched the walls of Mary's vaginal canal while being born, because if he had he would have been corrupted by sin. But the very essence of Christian faith is the radical confession that God has bridged the gap between heaven and earth. God has appeared as a human being, really and truly in flesh. God incarnate embraces the realities of time, space, food, sleeping, sex and gender. When Jesus is raised, he remains in a physical body, and that body has a particular sexual/gender identity (as do all human bodies). And Jesus is the firstfruits of our resurrection as well, meaning that we too will be raised bodily. Being made perfect in Christ involves the transformation and completion of sex and gender, but it does not mean that we shed these things and become somehow asexual. All of this has been to say that biblical Christian faith celebrates sexual union as a testimony and witness to, and a recpitulation of God's coventant faithfulness in the incarnation and resurrection of Jesus. So of course sexuality is treated as a holy and sacred thing that is embodied within the context of monogamy and fidelity, but this kind of sexuality is something to be celebrated not lamented as a necessary evil. And I think you are absolutely right about the GLBTI community's role to play in the midst of this. More than most other people, we have a profound sense of the destructive and dehumanizing power that an unhealthy and unchristian/gnostic view of sexuality can have. We have not had the option of fitting sexuality into the narrow parameters that the Western church has reticently accepted for it, and this have become outsiders. But, by grace, sometimes outsiders have a clearer view of things than those on the inside. So in agreement with the previous commenter I would say that we need to be thinking carefully about how we approach the dominant culture in the church. We need to always keep in mind that these are our brothers and sisters, not enemies to be converted or defeated. Yet at the same time, we need to have boldness to approach with integrity as the people that we are and the experiences and insights that we have, refusing to be silenced and marginalized. This is an interesting set of ideas. Thank you for raising this discussion. I think that you are absolutely right to say that the church, especially in the West, has been afflicted with a very destructive understanding of sexuality. As if it is really a dirty and sinful thing that we would escape if we could, but the world needs new babies and we all have “urges”, so we control it as much as possible and then dont talk about it. I think this can be traced back to the influence of gnostic heretics on early Christianity and the notion that the physical world and human bodies are morally impure, and the goal of faith is to be liberated from the physical. Take for example Augustine’s writings on original sin. Since he determined that it is passed biologically from father to child, he proposed, sex is th mechanism by which moral corruption is perpetuated in the world. He went so far as to posit that Jesus never touched the walls of Mary’s vaginal canal while being born, because if he had he would have been corrupted by sin.
But the very essence of Christian faith is the radical confession that God has bridged the gap between heaven and earth. God has appeared as a human being, really and truly in flesh. God incarnate embraces the realities of time, space, food, sleeping, sex and gender. When Jesus is raised, he remains in a physical body, and that body has a particular sexual/gender identity (as do all human bodies). And Jesus is the firstfruits of our resurrection as well, meaning that we too will be raised bodily. Being made perfect in Christ involves the transformation and completion of sex and gender, but it does not mean that we shed these things and become somehow asexual.
All of this has been to say that biblical Christian faith celebrates sexual union as a testimony and witness to, and a recpitulation of God’s coventant faithfulness in the incarnation and resurrection of Jesus. So of course sexuality is treated as a holy and sacred thing that is embodied within the context of monogamy and fidelity, but this kind of sexuality is something to be celebrated not lamented as a necessary evil.
And I think you are absolutely right about the GLBTI community’s role to play in the midst of this. More than most other people, we have a profound sense of the destructive and dehumanizing power that an unhealthy and unchristian/gnostic view of sexuality can have. We have not had the option of fitting sexuality into the narrow parameters that the Western church has reticently accepted for it, and this have become outsiders. But, by grace, sometimes outsiders have a clearer view of things than those on the inside.
So in agreement with the previous commenter I would say that we need to be thinking carefully about how we approach the dominant culture in the church. We need to always keep in mind that these are our brothers and sisters, not enemies to be converted or defeated. Yet at the same time, we need to have boldness to approach with integrity as the people that we are and the experiences and insights that we have, refusing to be silenced and marginalized.

]]> Comment on Remembering Lawrence King by Cal http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2008/03/07/remembering-lawrence-king/#comment-39 Cal Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:09:01 +0000 http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2008/03/07/remembering-lawrence-king/#comment-39 Well said Carol. It's time for us all to assume responsibility for the violence that is done out of ignorance. And it's time for the Church to understand that welcome without acceptance is no welcome at all, and only serves to reinforce otherness. It's hypocrisy to bemoan physical violence in the same breath that asserts that homosexual love is sin (to say nothing, as you've said, about trans or bisexual love). Violence is violence - whether by misguided kids in school, or by a misguided Church where violence is committed erringly out of a desire to serve God. To commit that error is understandable, it's human. But what I don't understand is the refusal to respond with openness and integrity when the error is exposed. Well said Carol. It’s time for us all to assume responsibility for the violence that is done out of ignorance. And it’s time for the Church to understand that welcome without acceptance is no welcome at all, and only serves to reinforce otherness. It’s hypocrisy to bemoan physical violence in the same breath that asserts that homosexual love is sin (to say nothing, as you’ve said, about trans or bisexual love). Violence is violence - whether by misguided kids in school, or by a misguided Church where violence is committed erringly out of a desire to serve God. To commit that error is understandable, it’s human. But what I don’t understand is the refusal to respond with openness and integrity when the error is exposed.

]]> Comment on We have what they need by linscheid http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2008/01/22/we-have-what-they-need/#comment-34 linscheid Sun, 02 Mar 2008 20:24:56 +0000 http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2008/01/22/we-have-what-they-need/#comment-34 I agree that we know something (or are learning some things). But hang the "pain and annoyance of trying to convince them that we have something they need." When we create forums and spaces where we start exploring with each other what an embodied sexual morality (unboxed) means in each of our lives and start learning from one another, those who need it will come to us. I trust them to figure out what they need. But as long as we sit around trying to convince what ever "them" we select, that "they" need something--we'll end up spending all our time on that and never get to the good stuff. I'm sure I betray my age when I say, "just do it." Those who need it will gather. I agree that we know something (or are learning some things). But hang the “pain and annoyance of trying to convince them that we have something they need.” When we create forums and spaces where we start exploring with each other what an embodied sexual morality (unboxed) means in each of our lives and start learning from one another, those who need it will come to us. I trust them to figure out what they need. But as long as we sit around trying to convince what ever “them” we select, that “they” need something–we’ll end up spending all our time on that and never get to the good stuff. I’m sure I betray my age when I say, “just do it.” Those who need it will gather.

]]> Comment on On the Separation of Church and State by maggie http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/08/16/on-the-separation-of-church-and-state/#comment-10 maggie Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:16:14 +0000 http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/08/16/on-the-separation-of-church-and-state/#comment-10 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sen-mike-gravel/hillary-chooses-states-ri_b_60351.html Gravel's comments made me feel, at least for a short amount of time, that someone with a sense of power shared my feelings about Clinton. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sen-mike-gravel/hillary-chooses-states-ri_b_60351.html

Gravel’s comments made me feel, at least for a short amount of time, that someone with a sense of power shared my feelings about Clinton.

]]> Comment on Richardson’s Gaffe by On the Separation of Church and State » Young Anabaptist Radicals http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/08/15/richardsons-gaffe/#comment-9 On the Separation of Church and State » Young Anabaptist Radicals Fri, 17 Aug 2007 00:07:42 +0000 http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/08/15/richardsons-gaffe/#comment-9 [...] it’s been quiet here for the last few days. If you need more context, you might check out the previous post on the BMC blog about the Human Rights Campaign/Logo Presidential Forum that j alan meyer mentioned here a while [...] […] it’s been quiet here for the last few days. If you need more context, you might check out the previous post on the BMC blog about the Human Rights Campaign/Logo Presidential Forum that j alan meyer mentioned here a while […]

]]> Comment on Stories of boldness and risk by Kaleidoscope http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/07/05/stories-of-boldness-and-risk/#comment-7 Kaleidoscope Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:35:10 +0000 http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/07/05/stories-of-boldness-and-risk/#comment-7 Welcome to the blog Jason, I hope your time here is helpful in your work. Welcome to the blog Jason,

I hope your time here is helpful in your work.

]]> Comment on Response to LTS, HTS by Luke http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/06/13/response-to-lts-hts/#comment-6 Luke Tue, 19 Jun 2007 01:53:44 +0000 http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/06/13/response-to-lts-hts/#comment-6 Oh look! Our first troll. The delicious irony: I know David personally, and not only is he NOT white, he happens to be FROM the global south. Oh look! Our first troll. The delicious irony: I know David personally, and not only is he NOT white, he happens to be FROM the global south.

]]> Comment on Response to LTS, HTS by debbie http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/06/13/response-to-lts-hts/#comment-5 debbie Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:37:44 +0000 http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/06/13/response-to-lts-hts/#comment-5 Let me guess - you are white. This is such a rich, white person's agenda. How many churches of color or Anabaptist churches in the global south support this agenda? Let me guess - you are white. This is such a rich, white person’s agenda. How many churches of color or Anabaptist churches in the global south support this agenda?

]]> Comment on Intro to David by Kaleidoscope http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/06/12/intro-to-david/#comment-4 Kaleidoscope Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:09:59 +0000 http://www.bmclgbt.org/blog/2007/06/12/intro-to-david/#comment-4 Welcome to the blog David. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you as time goes on. Anyone else want to join in? email me at the BMC office: kaleidoscope@bmclgbt.org Welcome to the blog David. I’m looking forward to hearing more from you as time goes on.

Anyone else want to join in? email me at the BMC office: kaleidoscope@bmclgbt.org

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